How to Get What You Want

Lessons of Feedback with Trace Beatty

• Susie Tomenchok • Episode 107

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Are you afraid of getting feedback? Discover how to turn feedback into your secret weapon for professional growth! Trace Beatty, my oldest daughter, joins me today to dive deep into the art of receiving feedback. Learn practical strategies to proactively seek, gracefully receive, and effectively utilize feedback to boost your career. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out, we will help you transform your relationship with feedback and leverage it for success!

In this episode, we talk about the following:
1. Importance of feedback in professional growth.
2. How to proactively seek feedback in the workplace.
3. Building stronger relationships through feedback.

Connect with Trace:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/trace-beatty/

The Negotiator's Toolbox is now available!
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Are you afraid of getting feedback? Stick right here and we'll ease your fears. Welcome to the Leaders with Leverage podcast.

I'm your host and negotiation expert, Susie Tomichuk. It's time to be your own advocate and confidently navigate what you want out of your career, not simply the next role or additional compensation. I want to show you that negotiation happens every day in plain sight.

So you need to be ready to opt in and say yes with confidence. This happens by adopting a negotiator's mindset, and I'll show you how. Together with other business leaders, you'll learn the essential skills and shifts in mindset you need to know.

You will be empowered to naturally advocate for yourself and grow your professional skills. And while you're practicing along the way, you'll increase your confidence and gain respect, all while you're growing into that future leader you're poised to be. And when you face a high stakes situation, you're ready, no matter how high those stakes are.

So let's do it. Let's lead with leverage. Hey, welcome to Leaders with Leverage.

I am so glad you made the choice to be here today, especially today because I have a very special guest. And I'm going to tell you right off the top, she's my oldest daughter. This is Trace Beatty.

Welcome, Trace. Thank you. I'm very glad to be here.

I just realized as you were doing that intro, I actually have a little fidget. I know you fidget sometimes while you're in meetings. I just realized I'm going to be more comfortable having this in my lap while we talk today.

I want to give a little context. I didn't ask you permission to do this, but Trace is 30. And I wanted to give you that context because she's worked for three corporate environments, and she currently works at Nordstrom.

She does product development, no, project management around their fraud area. So she works with engineers and she works with Frontline to look at the workflow around that. Is that fair?

Did I do good? Yes, it's product management. So you had both of them in separate descriptions.

But yes, product management within the fraud space, as you mentioned, for Nordstrom. And yeah, I do get to work with a lot of our very talented tech team, software engineers in the corporation, as well as our frontline engineers across the organization. Okay, great.

And I love one thing we're going to talk about, which you and I talk about a lot is we have a very different relationship with feedback. And I as a when I grew up in my corporate world, feedback was something that happened once a year. And it was hard, like, I still have problems with feedback, like I have to get in the right mindset to hear it.

But you're really different. So explain to us, what is your relationship with feedback? That's funny that you say I'm different.

I feel like feedback is so hard for me to feedback is something that's never easy to take. But I am maybe more proactive in my engagement with feedback on a regular basis. I have found that in my corporate career across the last 10 or so years, that getting feedback is better than not getting feedback.

And even if it's very simply something along the lines of, hey, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. And getting that feedback is very tangible and helpful for me, too. Yeah, because it's like, when I've talked to you, it's like, when you are in an environment where you're not getting feedback, it's like you're in the dark, you don't know if you're doing well, if you're on the right course.

And so it makes you tread water sometimes. So I've noticed about you is you're just not really sure or confident, because you're not sure if you're going the right way, even would you say that's fair? Oh, absolutely.

The times where you've seen me be my least confident self in the workplace has been when I've truly been in the dark about feedback, I'm getting zero, I'm not getting even negative feedback that's giving me that lack of confidence. I'm getting no feedback altogether. I don't even know I feel like I'm wandering in the desert.

I'm wandering in the darkness. I don't know if I'm going in the right direction at all. I could be walking south when I'm supposed to be walking north.

And so feedback is illustrating that somebody cares about you, and investing in you. That's how you see it. That's how you feel it.

Right? Oh, absolutely. And I don't just look for feedback within my leadership.

I also look for feedback within my peers space within my partner space, within the, like we talked about earlier, the frontline engineer, frontline workers that I work with, I'm looking for feedback for myself and for my products across a plethora of landscapes. It's it's not just what we're used to, which is get feedback from your manager. And that's all you get.

No, I look for feedback across it, actually, even in my day to day life, outside of work, I look for feedback from my husband, from my family, including you, for my siblings, friends, and it can be more subtle than I think people realize. Yeah, that's so true. Feedback even comes from where you're not getting invited.

What what how people interact with you. And I don't know if you've ever heard me say this, but it's like the back of your head. We know it exists.

We see it in the mirror, we see it in pictures, but we can't literally go behind ourselves and experience the back of our head. We it's other data sources that fill that in. So understanding what it's like to live outside of you is a data collection.

It is impossible to live outside of you. So getting all of this feedback from a lot of different places helps you understand what it's like to live outside of you. Yeah, absolutely.

It's funny, because you just use that that analogy with the back of your head. But the thing that I do remember you saying very regularly, and what you finally got from feedback was filling your blind spots, being able to fill those, those places that you, you, like you just said, can't see. And so the best example I've heard from you, and I'm sure you'll you might mention this story later in our conversation is when you got really tough 360 feedback, and it revealed a lot of a lot of a few blind spots for you that you had been missing.

And it really leveled you up. Yeah. Yes.

So when we come back, you and I are both going to share a story. I want you to talk about how do you get feedback from all these different places. So be thinking about that.

And we'll talk more about this exploration of living outside ourselves. So stay right here. We'll be right back.

Hey, Suzy here. Thought I'd pop in. I wanted to let you know I've been an executive coach for over a decade.

I work with executives and they call me their silent partner because I help them increase their confidence when they're facing really difficult decisions. If you'd like to see if we're a good fit, head over to suzytomachuck.com and fill out an application. I'd love to hear from you.

We're back. So Trace, what I'd love you to do is think about a time and I want you to share a story that isn't from your current company. If you could maybe think about something that was prior to now, just so that, you know, maybe think about what you've learned.

So can you tell us a story that is related to your relationship with feedback? Yeah. I mean, best stories are always tough stories.

So one of my first career interactions with feedback, like I had mentioned before, I didn't get a lot of feedback really early in my career or mid-level in my career. And I hope we can talk a little deeper about giving some tips about how we can maybe facilitate that in the future. But I didn't get a lot of feedback.

And one of my first interactions with receiving feedback was really negative for me. It was a moment in my career that kind of changed my career and my trajectory entirely. So I was up for my annual review.

One day, I think it was the next day in the evening before my annual review, I received an email and why I was checking my email. I don't know. Don't ask me.

I'm pretty good about that now. I received an email and read it the night before, almost a blessing in disguise that I did because I had time to prepare for it. Yeah.

And immediately called my mother when I received this email. I read the email. It was almost a laundry list or what felt like a laundry list to me of negative, not so good feedback that I had not received previously.

I thought I was going in the right direction in my role. And in that moment, all at once was compounded with the notion of, nope, you're going in the complete wrong direction. You should have been going in this direction and you've been way off course.

And it hit me really hard. It was very hard feedback to take. I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, mom, I believe I called you crying.

I was very upset and emotional for many reasons, not just sad to hear negative feedback about myself, but also frustrated that I hadn't received this feedback previously. And whether receiving that feedback was necessary or not, which maybe it was, I, at the end of the day, don't believe it was the right way to have presented that information to anyone. So what I've taken from that experience, and to be a little transparent, that annual review obviously didn't go very well, but I was prepared for it.

So having the feedback ahead of time was helpful in some regards, but I was prepared to have that more, not frustrating, that conversation that was a conversation I wasn't blindsided in the room at least. I learned that as I grew up into leadership roles throughout my career and have grown into a leader, I don't want to ever do that to someone else. I want to make sure that I am giving feedback well and also receiving it well.

That feedback can be hard to hear and it might've been legitimate and things I needed to hear, but receiving it all at once was very difficult, near impossible for me to digest. And I think a better way to have done that is to give it over time, one or two pieces of feedback at a time, sprinkling in something that that person is doing well so that they can have confidence that there is the ability for them to do well and they're not just crushed by not doing well. And then also getting it often, giving it often, getting it often, having that be something that you talk about on a more regular basis instead of that scenario where it seemingly wasn't even once a year, it was once every three years because I hadn't received feedback before that point.

So crazy. Yeah. I remember that.

I'm glad you told that story because I remember it so vividly because of the emotions involved. And I personally was mad and I realized in that moment, because I had context to your leaders and how they led. And I think what had happened was they were great technical people that were put in manager roles, this specific person, and they'd never gotten any leadership training or development around that.

But that's no excuse. And for me, I think that person had a hard relationship with feedback. And so they didn't want to give you the negative feedback even in person.

So it was the lazy, easy way out for him to email that. And I remember what he said to you in the moment was like, that way we could talk about all the good things because he got that out of the way. That's right.

I forgot about that. Yeah. So he transparently said, this is easier for me.

But the other side, that's why I love you telling this story is don't forget there's somebody on the other side of getting that feedback. And it's so important that we not only think about our relationship with it, but how that transcends to the person in front of us. Definitely.

It's funny. I think around the same time in my career, I was going through a really great tactical book around leadership called The Leadership Contract. And there's a very large section around getting and giving feedback.

And I do remember some of my emotions that came out were frustration because I knew this was the wrong way to give feedback. It wasn't an effective way. I was almost angered and frustrated by knowing that this is not an effective way.

And it was just written and I read through it in the book. This is not an effective way to give feedback. You should give feedback in much smaller increments.

I wonder if that brought out even more emotion in the moment while it was happening. Yes, because you wanted to send the book to him and be like, you're doing this all wrong. That's what I wanted to do too.

I was like, can I have his phone number? I want to call him and say, this is wrong. You're not being a good leader.

But it's so interesting because we can't always have that conversation with the person in front of us, but be thoughtful about how you're giving feedback. That's the lesson here. I know that you have a lot of tips.

When we come back, you're going to give some tips. And from what context? Give us that context.

Yeah, I think receiving feedback is something that's really hard for me even, but a lot of people in general and how to solicit feedback in a way where you can ultimately receive it well. I think there are some things that I've learned along the way that I can share. Okay, good.

I think that's great. And to your point, feedback, we're just slicing off a piece of the feedback equation. This is something that you don't just overnight get good at, but there's also a great book called Thanks for the Feedback that is really good about looking at it from all dimensions.

But yes, Trace is going to take it from the perspective of being the receiver. So stay right here and we'll have Trace's tips in just a minute. Hey, Susie here.

I thought I'd pop in. You know, when I was a little girl, I always thought I wanted to be on the stage. I thought I might be holding a microphone and singing, but I now on the stage a lot and I love it because it's not about me and that experience.

I love to move people, give them an impactful message that really makes them feel confident so that they change their actions. If you know somebody in your network internally that hires speakers, I would love a warm introduction. Just send them to susietomachuk.com speaker page. I would be so grateful. Okay, Trace, I don't know your tips. I'm excited to hear them.

So the way we do this, you tell a tip, give us some more context, and then I'll comment as well. Okay. I do want to say I have not prepared these in advance.

These are kind of coming more naturally. So bear with me. That's okay.

The first one that I want to start with, my first tip is ask. What I mean by that is there are a lot of situations that you're in where you're interacting with people one-on-one on a regular occurrence. I have probably five or six one-on-ones that occur on my weekly schedule.

In those one-on-ones or one-on-one interactions of any kind, I would really encourage you to ask for feedback. Solicit the feedback yourself. Make someone comfortable with knowing that you want feedback.

It'll make them think about it. Even if they don't have any the first time, if you continually ask for it, they will eventually have something to give you. It can be positive, it can be negative, but they know that you're ready to receive it because you're regularly asking for it.

Such a great tip. Your former mentor, Sarah, would always say she'd ask the same question of her, whoever she's meeting, and then they'd eventually get used to the fact that they have to eventually answer it. So asking for feedback and making it comfortable can help their side as well.

I love that tip, asking for it. They say in the research, if you ask for in the moment, some people will just give you accolades. But if you ask them for meaningful feedback or ask for it on a regular basis, then they'll spot it.

You're giving them the opportunity to observe it so that they can give you really good feedback. That's a good one. Ask.

All right, what's your second one? That's very funny because you transitioned me very well into the second one. Yes.

Be specific. Ask specific questions about feedback that you're most interested in getting. My two favorite questions to ask are, where am I showing up and where do I need to lean in more?

And those are pretty generic. It can be specifically around a project that you're working on. How am I performing on this project?

Is there anything I'm missing? Do I have any blind spots in this specific area? Being specific with the feedback that you're soliciting can also help trigger that individual to think about it and have something more tangible to give you.

Do you ever ask for that beforehand or do you always ask consistently? What is that tip around getting that specificity? I don't know that I ask for specific things regularly.

I think what I do is I ask if you have feedback generically regularly. That's more of my asking on a regular cadence. When I'm asking for something very specific, I will usually prepare that person because I want to enter that conversation with them having thoughtful answers for me and not just blindsiding them and saying, hey, can you think in the next 30 seconds about how you feel about me in this scenario?

At the very worst case scenario, if it just comes to mind where I'm realizing, oh, I have a gap here or maybe I want to understand this about myself better, I might say, hey, in our next one-on-one, can I have you think about this specific piece of feedback? How am I showing up for this project? When I get specific, I usually am preparing that individual in some capacity.

Love it. That's so good. All right.

What's your third tip? Can you think of one more? Yes.

Yes. I don't have a snappy little phrase for it. What it really comes down to, though, is maybe it's pause.

Maybe it's pause. What I mean by that is in some cases and in a lot of cases, the feedback people go to is what's nagging them, what's bugging them about you, not necessarily where you're doing well. Anticipating that when you're asking for feedback, you can and will get something that will be received more negatively.

If you're able to pause in the entirety of that conversation, you will be better off, even if it's killing you inside, to be able to download that information and absorb it and understand it for yourself before responding. When we react to feedback, that, especially if it's a negative reaction, that will immediately cut someone off from wanting to give it to you. You're cutting off that lifeline, that willingness to provide you with feedback if you're unwilling to stop and take the information that they're giving you, no matter how hard it is or incorrect it is.

They might not have the right context, but absorb it before you try to dispute it, even internally. Yes, that's so good. I love the power of the pause.

I think that's perfect. No, that's right. That's yours.

No, I think I stole that from somebody. Because you're right, it turns people off. We all know people, when we give them advice or feedback and they never take it, I don't give it to them anymore if they can't understand it.

If you signal to them that you're not... I love that pause because that will be like you're thinking about it. At least you're contemplating it.

Even if in your head, you're like, ooh, I'm so mad at you for saying that. You're wrong. Yeah, you're wrong.

All right. So your tips were... Now I'm not going to remember.

Your tips were... Let's see if I can do it. Your tips were to prepare.

Is it prepare? Be specific. No, I thought that was the second one.

It was, but you forgot the first one. Ask. Okay.

Let's start again. She'll edit this in. Okay.

So your tips were ask, be specific, and pause. Those are good. I'm having a really proud mom moment.

So good. So as you know, it's not just about getting advice. It's about putting it into practice.

So when we come back, I want you and I both to commit to stop, start, or continue something because listeners have to do that too. So we'll be right back.

Oh, I got in. Hey, everybody. I'm James.

I'm Susie's co-host on her other podcast, Quick Take. If you're enjoying this podcast, you're going to love our podcast, Quick Take, even better. Mostly because, well, I'm there, which is infinitely more entertaining.

But hey, you'll love it if you join us. Please subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay. Our final segment, you won't be surprised, Trace. This is where we put the pedal to the metal, rubber to the road is you can't just talk about it.

What are you going to do? And when you've made me really think about, I'm just going to use, I'm going to do a start. Actually, I'm going to start soliciting feedback from my clients.

I've never really thought about how I need to get that so that I could understand what it's like to work with me. So I'm going to do that on a more regular basis. So what are you going to commit to here?

I think I'll continue my path of asking for feedback regularly. That's been a very effective way for me to fill the void of not getting feedback. And I really feel like it's helped me build stronger relationships in my working environment.

I think I'll also start soliciting feedback from individuals that maybe I'm less comfortable soliciting feedback from. Those who I might get feedback from and think, oh, that's not true. Or there's an inaccuracy there.

So getting that feedback from that individual is helpful for me to better understand and comprehend one where they're coming from, but also how I can better work with them. Maybe their perception of me is wrong. So I need to shift that.

Maybe something I'm doing is frustrating them. And I need to be aware of that frustrating component and how I can frame it differently, even if I need to continue to do it in some capacity, frame it differently to be a better partner to that individual. And what that also does, it's good for your own brand, your own PR, because you're illustrating that you want to develop and you're helping them see you in the way you want them to by soliciting that feedback.

Yeah, that's very true. Gosh, I am so proud of you. You've given such great nuggets of advice.

Thank you. Thank you. You know I joke.

I have an on-call professional coach at my will. You do. And I have a lot of people that I want to call and give them a piece of my mind.

But you know, it is what it is. You can't do that for other clients. No, I can't do it for you either.

Well, Trace Beatty, if you want people to find you, they can find you on LinkedIn, right? Absolutely. Connect with you.

Tell Trace what kind of feedback you want from her. You can reach out to her. So thank you for being here, Trace.

I know that you might have felt obligated, but I think you gave us a lot of wisdom today. I appreciate it. No obligation.

Okay. Not in the slightest. What was the name of the book you mentioned?

The Leadership Contract. Okay. We'll put that in the show notes along with thanks for the feedback is the one that I love as well.

So feedback is something that you have to get, you build a relationship with and it's a journey, not a destination. And just like negotiation, it's more than a skill. It's a mindset.

Thanks for being here. Until next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of Leaders with Leverage.

I am so honored that you chose to spend your time with me. If you're ready to accelerate your professional growth and invest in defining the career you want, I have more resources for you. You can join my newsletter where your inbox will love a Monday minute.

It's an easy read where I share stories of how others are adopting a negotiator's mindset so that you can use these tips so that you can find success every week. And if you want to read my book, The Art of Everyday Negotiation Without Manipulation, I have a special offer just for my listeners. These links can be found in the show notes.

And if you want to work with me, there's more information there as well. I'd love for you to be a part of this movement to adopt a negotiator's mindset because those who do create opportunities for themselves and they believe the investment is completely worth it. Head to the links in the show notes and just remember that I appreciate you.

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Susie Tomenchok

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